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10 February 2007 @ 02:10 pm
I was just re-watching episode 209...  
Okay, I've been rewatching the series again (QaF naturally) and I just watched episode 209.

You know, I've always wondered about that scene where Brian's mother first discovers Justin and his connection to her son and I've always wondered what people thought about that particular scene.

I've seen how wonderfully it was handled in fan fic by Ethan in the gapfiller Done, but I haven't seen it really tackled anywhere else and if it is, it's usually done with an extremely AU type of flourish.

What are your thoughts on that scene? Do you think Brian was mad at Justin? Do you think Justin actually felt bad? I can see Brian wince and then smirk when Justin waves 'hi' to his mom. I just can't get a read on that scene.

And does Joan remind anyone else of their mother cause I gotta tell ya, she's the spitting image of mine!

And what about that outfit Debbie wears when having dinner with Ben and Mikey? Does anyone else think she should be shot for wearing that hideous emsemble? She doesn't look like she's spending the evening entertaining her son's boyfriend, but trying to solicit johns on Hollywood Blvd.

And lastly, and most importantly, does anyone else ever get the cravings for cake after watching the scene with Joan barging into the loft?
 
 
Current Mood: curiouscurious
 
 
 
Eileen: B/J 4Evereileen_donovan on February 10th, 2007 10:31 pm (UTC)
I always thought that scene had a poor set-up. I mean, what happened to Justin's hearing? He couldn't hear that Brian was talking to someone downstairs? It's not like he was that far away even if he was in the bathroom. And if he really didn't know someone was in the loft, why was he dressed? Would he put on sweatpants to come ask Brian if they were going to finish? I don't think so. And holding his ass like that? Please. It just always seemed silly to me. If they wanted to reveal Brian's gayness to his mom, there are countless fanfic writers who could've come up with something more plausible. lol!

My mother was nothing like Joanie. Thank God!

And, yeah, that cake looked yummy, didn't it?
Maria: B/J cha cha chaslave_o_spike on February 10th, 2007 10:39 pm (UTC)
See? I thought that too. I mean, couldn't Justin hear them in the next room? If he heard people talking, did he think it was one of the guys and that's why he put clothes on but was okay to come out? Of course, Mikey would never knock on the loft door - he would just walk in.

And the ass holding? By that time, didn't he see Joan? And yes, I think there are several fan fic writers who could have written that scene much better.

Like, if Cowlip wanted Joan to find out, what about her saying she needed to use the bathroom, barging into Brian's bedroom, Brian close on her heels trying to stop her and then her seeing a naked Justin on the bed, trying to cover up?

My mother was nothing like Joanie. Thank God!

Lucky you. My mom was (and still is) always trying to tbe the good Catholic girl. God! The fights we would have regarding religion! At least she sent me to Parochial school for 12 years so I was always well-armed with religious history and Bible references!

The cake did look good - it was HUGE!
Eileen: 314-B/J Bed Close upeileen_donovan on February 10th, 2007 11:05 pm (UTC)
OMG, I think you stumbled on the exact scene! Yes, Mikey always barged in! So, he does just that, leaves the door opened, and is talking to B/J who are still in bed. Then all Joan has to do is walk through the door and see Brian lying in bed with this beautiful blond boy by his side! Wow, someone should've used that idea! Much more explosive! If we want to promote the idea that Joanie goes ballistic, that would surely do it!

Like, if Cowlip wanted Joan to find out, what about her saying she needed to use the bathroom, barging into Brian's bedroom, Brian close on her heels trying to stop her and then her seeing a naked Justin on the bed, trying to cover up?

I like this idea too! It's very straightforward! Not even complicated! What is wrong with C/L? Okay, don't answer that!

I was raised Catholic, but my mom was a convert so I don't think she ever took it all that seriously--luckily for me! :)
Maria: B/J cha cha chaslave_o_spike on February 10th, 2007 11:10 pm (UTC)
I wish I could have written some of the episodes! :P

I don't know what they were thinking. It seems like they had this thing about making Justin do stupid things but never explaining them later like, well, that's just Justin.

But that's not Justin. He was a smart kid, persistent maybe, but smart and there were times he was cautious.

I think the worse people to break from canon will always be Cowlip! LOL!

Mom and dad were from a small village in Italy and they both came over before WWII (the 30's). They have some extremely strange views on the church!

BTW, do you like Gale/Randy RPS? I'm just about to post a little fic on it. It's ready to go - I'm just going over it one more time.
Eileen: Justin in blackeileen_donovan on February 10th, 2007 11:18 pm (UTC)
I don't know what they were thinking. It seems like they had this thing about making Justin do stupid things but never explaining them later like, well, that's just Justin.

That's what made me crazy about the later seasons. Justin seemed to hop from thing to thing like he was schizophrenic or a multiple personality. I never saw him that way and rejected him in those crazy modes because to me he was basically strong and sensible. After all, he could handle Brian Kinney. That said a lot about him. :)

I think the worse people to break from canon will always be Cowlip! LOL!

SO true! I always think that when people are talking about someone writing Brian or Justin OOC. CowLip did just that and they did it deliberately because they had their own agenda. Weird.

BTW, do you like Gale/Randy RPS? I'm just about to post a little fic on it. It's ready to go - I'm just going over it one more time.

I love RPS. I know, I'm going to hell. :) I was watching 110 last night (I'm going through the series again too) and when the hotel scene came on, I looked at them and thought: "How could Gale be straight? How? No one acts that well!" So, yeah, bring it on!
A fanjustinlovesart on February 10th, 2007 11:42 pm (UTC)
Mom and dad were from a small village in Italy and they both came over before WWII (the 30's). They have some extremely strange views on the church

You are of Italian descent: I knew there was a reason why I liked you so much! May I ask which village your parents came from?

Cowlip's inconsistencies are so blatant they are almost brilliant: if they feel that something must happen, they don't let little things like ICness or even simple logics get in their way! Stockwell must find about Brian boycotting his campaign? So what better way to show it than Brian opening the door to him, stark naked, mid-fuck, posters laying around the loft?
Maria: money shotslave_o_spike on February 10th, 2007 11:48 pm (UTC)
Yes! That episode with Brian answering the door naked! I mean, oh my God!!!

It's simple - don't answer the fucking door!

Anywho, my parents are from Abruzzi. When they arrived to america, my father settled in Pueblo Springs in Colorado and my mom in an orange grove in Saugus in Southern California.

Are you of Italian descent also? Where? How much? Were you always plyed with food?

And btw, I just posted the RPS thingie. :P
A fan: BJ Foreverjustinlovesart on February 11th, 2007 12:07 am (UTC)
I am 100% Italian, born and raised there, but in the North. Moved to NZ later, for love ;)

Phil is already my favourite boy. I want to meet his mama now.
Maria: B/J cha cha chaslave_o_spike on February 11th, 2007 12:13 am (UTC)
It's funny. My parents talked about how the Northern Italians were much more lighter than the Southern Italians (I guess they were more central), but for all the world, how much lighter could they go? LOL! My father is this blue-eyed blond. My mother is the classical Italian - dark hair and brown eyed.

Had you not moved to New Zealand for love, do you think you would have stayed in Italy or would you eventually have moved somewhere else?

My daughter, Megan, is going to Italy and Greece this summer with some of her class.

And Phil is, well, he's Phil. I love Phil.

No one has met momma yet...:P
A fanjustinlovesart on February 11th, 2007 12:35 am (UTC)
There are quite a few fair Southerners, descendants of the Normans mainly, but generally speaking yes, Southern Italian are darker than Northeners.

I would be still living overseas. I've been living overseas ever since I finished school, but moving around the world. Love made me decide to stay here.

So Phil's mum is a mythical figure, never seen but VERY present. Is she Italian?
Maria: B/J cha cha chaslave_o_spike on February 11th, 2007 01:27 am (UTC)
No, momma's not Italian. I have no idea what she is. Southern, no doubt, possibly from Florida or Texas.

But we get quite a bit of her philosphy via Phil.

I'm like you though - when I was younger, I wanted to travel the world. I got about as far as Tahiti (Bora Bora to be exact), then I married and didn't travel as much.
Create Your Reality: valentine internet porncourt1429 on February 11th, 2007 01:37 am (UTC)
Well, you & besame_bj just had the conversation I've been wanting to have forever. That scene has always just irritated the fuck out of me. So many plotpoints over the years were so stupidly executed.

I totally wanted that cake. May still want that cake. :)

I'm not so much for the RPS. I think I'm in the minority, though.
Maria: B/J cha cha chaslave_o_spike on February 11th, 2007 01:42 am (UTC)
RPS is not everyone's cupppa. (I actually still can't really get into the Gale and Randy but I thought I would take Phil out of moth balls for this).

And yes, so so so many plot points were executed poorly. If Justin wouldn't act like this in an episode - well hell, that's okay! We'll just explain it away as Justin having been lobotomized in one of the 'lost' episodes.

I think I'm going to make cake tonight...mmmmm.
shadownyc: kyuukumber - 512 - B/J post sexshadownyc on February 11th, 2007 03:58 am (UTC)
I love this extremely important and philosophical post!

1. I never thought Brian was angry with Justin. I think he may have been angry with himself for getting "caught" because he never had the nerve to tell his mother he was gay.

2. Joan only reminds me of my mother when she's in a bitchy mood or is feeling holier-than-thou...which does happen from time to time. ;b

3. I always thought that Deb's outfit was more insane in that scene than most. While she's not known for her taste, she usually wears clothes that fit right. Those pants and shoes were definitely too much for that scene.

4. I always get cravings for cake, but I specifically want chocolate chocolate chip cake after that scene. LOL
Maria: BJ Sex Take 2slave_o_spike on February 11th, 2007 02:47 pm (UTC)
Okay, okay, so it's not like the hard hitting questions you guys deliver over at qaf_marathons - it's me, remember?

And the cake question, was IMO, a very relevant question!

I like your take on #1. The fact that he could never tell his mother he was gay was one of those things that always grated on his conscious. I mean, I think he always envied Justin's ability to be able to tell his parents and come out the way he did (then again, Jenn did find out for herself and then she was the one who told Craig). I still think Justin would have told them and not waited so long.

I still think the scene was handled strangely though.

My mom and Joan are clones! It's uncanny really. I could see watching this show with my mom and her agreeing with everything Joan says and does. That is, of course, if we could actually watch the show without me having to repeat every other line to my mom back:

mom: What did he say?
me: He said, "I don't believe in love, I believe in fucking!"
mom: You don't have to use such language Maria.

The clothes didn't fit right but then she had to wear those shoes and that just put it completely over the top!

And yeah...cake...mmmm. I don't keep cookies and chips around the house for the kids - if they want snacks, they can eat berries, grapefruit or rice cakes. But after we all watched that episode over a year ago, my daughter made chocolate cupcakes!
firehead30firehead30 on February 11th, 2007 06:46 pm (UTC)
cravings for cake
*wipes crumbs from mouth* ummm just reading your post made me want cake.

Dabbie's outfit...you know...I always thought Debbie was just clueless and trying too hard. While I agree with you as far as what the ensemble was actually suitable for, Debbie just doesn't get it.

Joan.....my mother is an extremely conservative fundamentalist christian, enough said.

Ethan's beautifully gapfiller is the only one I have ever read that make sense for this scene. I never once thought Brian was angry with Justin. I have always thought Justin felt bad once he knew who Joanie was. When he comes to find Brian he has a sore ass and wants Brian to kiss it better...his brain is not focused on meeting family. Justin is shirtless, just came from the bedroom, both Brian and Justin look freshly fucked I don't think country club etiquette quite covers how to handle this situation. I just thought it was one of those blank situations....no one knows exactly how to handle things, Brian covers with a smirk, Joanie storms, Justin does not do much of anything. I always thought the scene was about Brian and Joanie so at this point and time Justin is merely a plot device.

On another note. How is Donovan doing?



Maria: BJ Stayslave_o_spike on February 12th, 2007 12:05 am (UTC)
Re: cravings for cake
Hey you! I still want cake...mmmm...cake....

Alas, Debbie shall never get it (except from Carl *pokes eyes out trying to get rid of image*)

Yeah, once again Justin was used as the plot device - there just to have Brian coming out.

Donovan is doing great! Thank you for asking. He seems to be in a happier mood. His teeth were really starting to bother him. Now that he's had the work done, he's way more chipper.

Sorry, my fb is not as exciting as usual. I just came back from seeing The Last King of Scotland and whoa! Very good movie but very draining!